How To Write Successful Cozy Mysteries As An Indie Author With Cheryl Phipps

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries

How do you succeed in writing cozy mysteries? Ella Barnard welcomes Cheryl Phipps, a USA Today best-selling romance author. Cheryl advises how you want more people to look guilty or have the potential to be the criminal. Then there should be love and trust, usually the sheriff, deputy, or forensic person. But writing the story is just the first step; there’s still the publishing and marketing to work on. If you believe in yourself, jump in with your boots and all. The more stories you put out there, the better you become. Join the conversation for more real-life writing wisdom!

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How To Write Successful Cozy Mysteries As An Indie Author With Cheryl Phipps

We are here with the amazing and lovely Cheryl Phipps. She is a USA Today bestselling romance author from the beautiful Auckland, New Zealand. As a young mother with three small children, Cheryl escapes the daily chaos of motherhood through her beloved romance novels. Now, as a writer herself, all Cheryl’s books echo her own values. Family always comes first, and love can conquer all. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. It’s such a pleasure. I love your show.

You are so sweet. I love your show because what we didn’t say in this bio is that Cheryl is one of the co-hosts of the SPA Girls Podcast. You should check that out. It’s a lovely show with some lovely accents and some fun times. I was there, and it was a good time. I do recommend everybody check that out.

Go listen to that episode.

All the fun episodes. My favorite was the Abundance Episode because that’s where I’m at. Let’s get into a little more about you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your author’s journey?

I started writing young like a lot of us do. I got married very young and had my children in about the mid-‘80s, which indicates my age somewhat. I started doing some creative writing courses. Also, the correspondence course. I went to night school, and between those things, I learned how to write “properly.” I learned after many essays and short stories that I had a lot missing. I think that most of it were the craft and the beats and that thing. The thing that helped me over that hurdle was joining our national organization, which has Romance Writers of New Zealand.

I have loved RWNC. I met the most amazing people and went to conferences. That is my author’s journey. Everything else was a precursor. That’s where I started. I met my amazing friends on the podcast. Eventually, in 2014, I self-published my first book. I tried the traditional route with my success. When I said I tried, it was so half-hearted.

It was never going to happen, and coming to terms with it wasn’t the hardest thing in the world for me as it has been for some self-published authors. They have to get over that whole, “I’m not good enough.” That lingers for a long time, and maybe it never goes away. Maybe we are always self-doubting. I speak to a lot of authors on our podcast, and it seems to be a reoccurring thing, so I don’t feel like I’m alone.

I addressed that specifically. That being enough.

It’s ironic because we were so brave, and we put ourselves out there and our way. Yet, we are always feeling that maybe we are not good enough. As I said, I started in 2014. It was very stylish writing and contemporary romance, which is what the buyer was all about. That’s what I was doing but I didn’t have a lot of success. I probably had about eighteen books out. I’m listening to people talk, having people on the podcast, I decided to give cozy mysteries ago.

Also, in my bio, we talked about the fact that I was very big on family and community. That’s what cozy mysteries are. You are all about best friends. They are all about pets which I love. They are all about mystery, which I read. It has been a great fit. That’s where I did get my bestselling author tag USA Today with being a romance writer but I have carried it on into my cozies. I’m about to publish thirteen of those. It’s only over half of what I did was romance but it’s so much more me.

I wouldn’t say it’s easier to write because mysteries can be harder, a lot more time-consuming but it is easy in the fact that I found my passion. Writing is my passion but this is like the next step up. It fills you was more pleasure. It fills you with more sense of achievement. Monetarily wise, that also plays into if you are more successful financially, then that’s got to help.

It’s more fun.

I can’t deny that. That is why I write. That is why I quit my day job because I wanted to do this full-time, and that’s what happened.

Writing what you’re passionate about is the next step up, and it fills you with more pleasure.

I didn’t mention that in the bio, so she writes the romance under Cheryl Phipps. What do you write in the cozies under?

C.A. Phipps. Not too different.

Phipps, which you can find from Cheryl. I’m sure you can find them either way. Are you complete because I like already have a list of topics?

I could peddle on loving what I do.

Now, you are writing cozies, and you found your spot. You did mention that you find it easier, and part of why it might be easier is because you are making more money but I wonder this since you found your passion. Do you think that the fact that it’s more fun or you are more passionate about it in any way affects how much money you are making?

I’m sure that that some way, on some level, it does but I think I’m a better cozy author than I am a romance author. I still sell my romance but the truth is I invested all my time and effort into the cozies when I decide to go for something. I go and boots and all. Romance is languishing, so you are not making anywhere near the money. I want to keep up with them because I do enjoy them. I also think it gives me a break, a different flavor. I have to write a romance very soon because I noticed that romance is creeping up on my cozy mysteries, which is not to say that it can’t be here.

Most cozies have like a guy for tension.

 A love interest.

There’s a show, not from New Zealand. From Australia, though. It’s Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries. Did you watch that?

I haven’t.

Especially for a cozy mystery writer. If everybody hasn’t watched Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries, I don’t know if it’s still on. It was on Netflix a few years ago, so I don’t know if it’s on Netflix now but it’s worth checking out because it’s like a cozy set in the ’20s. They have cool dresses and outfits. It’s got a good tension, the one guy.

I love all the guys. A friend of mine, Sierra Rose, you probably heard of her. She writes some mysteries that are a little further back, and I quite like those too.

Do you have magic in your cozies?

No, I don’t. Mine are non-paranormal.

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: Each book within a series needs to have its own look, but still a similar look overall.

I’m very curious about that. I’m happy to go down the cozy mystery because I have worked with a couple of authors who write cozies. Paranormal cozies now are very big, and they have been for a while. If you go to the cozy mystery category, it’s mostly paranormal but not everybody wants to write those.

I have some friends who are doing both. I’m not sure yet with our mini to muddy my water by trying it but I never say never. Especially now, because to be honest with you, this is a bit of a secret. I had done also written under another name with some stuff that was a little bit spicier, shall we say, that anything I have ever written before.

I didn’t want that ever to come out with my romance because my romance does have a little bit of heat in it but they are very sweet to me. They are not changeable. I was very cautious of making sure that those two didn’t ever meet. I’m not saying that I won’t write paranormal but I’m also thinking that cozy mysteries are the landscape of writing one. Making your world, all that thing is quite big enough. I throw in a paranormal element.

I coached one lady on writing cozy mysteries. The process of helping and I went and read some cozies, I was like, “Let me see.” It’s like you want to have clues in there. One of the things is you have to have clues in there but you can’t pence the cozy if you want to have clues.

I pence up to about 30,000 words to see where the story is taking me because I don’t have any idea. I know my main characters because they are the same all the way through. You are starting a new series. They are the same people. It’s the people that are going to do you wrong, then that change. For me, writing the story, knowing what the story is about, then I have to make sure that the clues are in there. Much easier when I get to that stage because I know what’s got to follow.

Question for you then, you know who dies obviously because that always happens with the first couple of chapters. Do you know when you are writing, who’s done it when you start?

Not always have because you find the body and certain things point you in one direction. You are like, “It’s a bit too simple.” I don’t want my readers to get it like in the first chapter. I don’t want them to know who’s done it. Even though they might pick it up, they are never sure. When I get reviews like that, it had me guessing to the end that’s what I want. That’s what I’m after.

Rather than make any more assumptions at this point, I am so curious because if it were me, my mindset would need to know the way I think. I wouldn’t need to know because I’m like, “What am I going to write? I don’t know.” I’m very curious about your process for writing the cozy. When you have an idea for murder, you are like, “This person will die,” but cozies are so much more than the murder. Tell me more.

This blows the mind of some of my fellow authors, especially those on our podcast. I have been buying covers. The covers dictate something in the story. The first one in the series I’m writing now is called Beagles Love Cupcake Crimes. Therefore, I’m going to have some cupcakes in there. There’s going to be a crime, and the beagle is one of the main characters, if I can say that. I have to figure out when this person dies immediately that cupcakes got to show up in some form or other. I don’t want to give away the whole story.

Go check out the C.A. Phipps on Amazon because I can see the covers behind her. I recognize that artist but they are adorable. I think Melissa Storm or Emily Fitz have a similar themed or cover because they have this bright cartoony but fun.

Each series is quite important to have its own look but within the series, they need to look very much the same. Having different colors on each side, I like that. I will go with that look.

They are so freaking cute. I like those ones. The ones behind you are my favorites. Here’s something, I think some people get cozy. Some people buy, not even cozy mystery authors but generally authors. There’s a difference between a book cover that I would want to have on my shelf sometimes and one that works on an app. I have coached people. I’m like, “You need to make your covers brighter even though they are beautiful. I love them but if somebody is on their phone and you have a muted cover, you want yours to pop.”

Looking at a picture in a thumbnail is a cool tip because if you can see what it’s about, not everything. Maybe not even make out all the words like it had a subtitle but look at it and say, “That’s a cozy mystery. That looks like fun.”

That looks like a fun cozy mystery. You told us a little bit about your process. You don’t have to tell us the story. You look at a cover. You are like, “The cupcake, a dog, and a murder.”

Invest all your time and effort when you decide to go for something.

My cozy mysteries are culinary coziness mysteries. They are also going to have recipes, and they are going to talk about food quite a lot, which is, interestingly enough, as one of my favorite things.

Mine as well.

If I do say so myself, I’m a very good baker. I’m quite a good cook. It all feels very natural. It doesn’t feel for most of the bottom level. In my processes, I’ve got to have my characters. I’ve got to have my laid, which in this case, as always at female sleuth. She’s an amateur. There’s going to be some love interest or at least an interest. In one of my stories, he turned out to be the bad guy. I didn’t know that. I had already written a book where he wasn’t. He wasn’t the bad guy.

We didn’t even telling you which series that is, though. You have to read them to find out.

A little teaser.

No spoilers here.

Basically, for me, it’s because I’m a pantser, it’s sitting down and getting it started.

Later, when you get to 30,000 words or so, and you get to the point where you start plotting a little at that point or what happens?

I’m going to show you. Nobody else can see this but it’s a little table.

It looks like a little Excel spreadsheet printed.

It’s only a table. It’s got four columns. The first one is the chapter. The second one is the day, as we are going chronologically through the story. The third one is the time. There’s that morning, afternoon, whatever. The fourth one is what’s happening. It’s only 2 or 3 scenes. Sometimes it mentions the people that are in that particular chapter. I also highlight when a clue pops up. I was going to say I have done my 30,000 or whatever it is. I start going through, and this is how far I’ve gotten them. I can move this down. I need something else there, and that’s how it goes for me.

You are going through the stuff that you’ve already written and putting it into that table.

To horrify everybody, I might’ve gone to the end of the last chapter or an epilogue and written the end of the story.

Potentially, in that, it could be like chapters 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, chapter 20. Have you not completed chapters 6 through 19?

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: You want more people to look guilty or have the potential to be the criminal.

No, because suddenly, I have realized where it’s going to end, how it’s going to end. I say I’m a pantser but as I say, it’s only to a certain point, then I have to know. I have to put it back, and things change. Even from day-to-day, I think, “It’s a stupid idea. Why are you writing that?” Conversely, “Yes, that’s what’s got to happen.” Those are the good days.

Do you ever go through and discover that you have put clues in that you didn’t know were clues when you wrote them?

Absolutely, and also a good place to put one. All of, “That’s right. I love that.”

I have a question specifically because I do think that this is a challenge when I have looked at cozy mystery and writing them. How do you put in the red herrings? Do you do that deliberately? Afterward, are you like, “Let me make sure that the readers know all my clues. Maybe this clue leads to somebody else.” How do you do that?

You have to have that. You need to hint at them to make it a cozy mystery. Sometimes they come very organically. You are writing, and you can see already what this person is doing. They are going to look guilty, and that’s great. That’s perfect because that’s what you want. You want more people to look guilty or have the potential to be the criminal, the murderer or even involved with the murderer because they can also have their sidekicks. Sometimes, it’s more than one person. One person is committing a crime potentially, and another one that’s made them do it, being a witness or assisting them in some way. Other times, you have to force them. “You will do it.”

Another question I have is that cozies are challenging because it has a mystery. It’s not only a mystery, who’s a mystery. It would be like a crime novel. It isn’t. It’s relationships and people. Maybe it’s almost like women’s fiction or chiclet or kind of ish in tone. I like to know, there’s the mystery, and that’s a good part of it but people wouldn’t read them if it weren’t both. How do you write both?

It’s going to be family or friends, or it’s going to be a mixture of both. Mine pretty much is a mixture of both. I don’t tend to have too much family at the beginning because that characters that can come in and cause trouble and strife or whatever. Friends are so important. It’s going to be our best day. There’s got to be the best day. Creating that community of how they react to each other.

They are all quirky characters. Often, my female slope is not. She’s who she is but one of them has got some talents that her grandfather taught her because he was a spy. She had these talents that she had learned as a child and didn’t realize that they would come in handy sometimes. Also, there’s the love interest, which is usually the sheriff, deputy or somebody like that. Maybe a forensics person and police force because, as we all know, they are not going to let somebody who has no reality.

The amateur’s loops don’t get to go into.

I have to solve this crime.

“Come and look at the murder scene. Come on, let me show you all the clues.”

You want to have a little poetic license but also try and stay within the bounds in that area where your town has set. Do they have these people? What are the people? What are their roles? In the way of law enforcement in there and try and melded them to what your story is.

I’m making sure I understand. You have the mystery but you don’t even focus on that initially, a little bit. There’s a murder but you are having fun with this cast of characters. Quirky characters that you brought together are like, “What are we doing in this mystery? What’s happening? What’s down at Jane’s place?” That might not have anything to do with a mystery but it’s fun. Maybe later, after you write it, you are like, “Maybe it does have to do with the mystery because I pants that.”

Even 2 or 3 books down the track, you know that this is what this person does, lives, works, whatever, and suddenly, their place of work becomes a place of interest or has assigned crime. You are building it. When you are doing a series, you are layering it. You are building it for ongoing stories.

If you get people to subscribe to get a free book, many people will unsubscribe quickly.

Where are your cozies set? Are they set in New Zealand?

Oregon.

Why?

I love the place. I love the look of it. I have a lot of readers from there as well. Right from the word, I had this misguided information if you like that New Zealand stories would never sell, which has been completely blown out of the water in recent times. It may have been true once upon a time. In my early days of writing, a lot of Americans didn’t know where New Zealand was. They thought we were part of Australia or an island of Australia, which I guess we are.

You are but you are not part of Australia.

No. To me, it’s saying Canada or America. It’s that thing, Australia, New Zealand. That’s how it all started. Also, when I chose this place, it was because the sea is not so far away. The mountains aren’t so far away. You’ve got lots of seasons and that helps when a coziness track if you can make people see the season as they are reading. To me, the setting is very important but it is another character.

My towns are focused around a bigger town called Destiny. Destiny is South of Portland. In between Portland and Destiny, I have one town South of Destiny. I have another town, East of Destiny. I have another town. My characters at some stage, will be able to visit or this. I have a story that’s going to encompass them all.

My sister lives in Portland, so I go there relatively often. I know but the reason I made like, “Awe,” is because I was going to ask if you have New Zealand recipes, especially yummy recipes in your book?

I do. Anything I have to remember as to convert.

It can’t only be grams. It has to be teaspoons. Now, I’m very curious. I’m probably going to go check them out because I also like to bake. I’m like, “Does she have other recipes that probably I didn’t grow up with?”

Definitely. My very first series, I don’t even put one recipe in. Sometimes, I have 3 or 4. Here’s a thing. One of my reader magnets is a recipe book, which takes all the recipes of all of those books and puts it in one place.

Where can we find that?

I could leave the link for you. It’s in the back of all of those books.

You will have a newsletter subscriber shortly. I have some more questions. You started self-publishing in 2014, which is a little while ago. In self-publishing years, that’s early on. What did you find going from romance to cozy? What precipitated that?

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: There’s love and trust, usually the sheriff, deputy, or forensic person.

Partly from a financial point of view but I was disheartened. I started doing the cozy mysteries in about 2018. I gave up my job in about 2017. I thought, “I’m not making money. I need to be making. I need to either write bitter romances.” I don’t dislike my romances. I don’t hate them at all. It’s falling the well of finances. A sense of success or achievement, even though I had a bestseller tag by me, it was in the back seat with a group of other authors. I was proud of that but I felt like I was leading it down if you understand what I mean.

I wanted to do better in all aspects. I was trying the cozy ministries. It’s another arrow, and it adjusted so well pretty much. I wouldn’t say the first spot but we were the 2nd or 3rd. It was showing much better returns. Even my romance readers because I didn’t split the list for some time. We are coming over and reading both. It also explained to me the reason why it was probably easier for me to go into cozy mysteries the way I did because a lot of my romances were more women’s fiction. I have a series that is quite a chicklet in a little bit of romantic comedy. I try to keep the humor in the cozies as well. Not the deepest funny.

I get what you mean. I have read some cozies where like the death happens in a way and you are like, “That is so bizarre,” and it’s funny but it’s cozy. That’s part of why I’m reading this to entertain myself.

Also, how people react to death, let’s be honest. Sometimes it’s not the way you would measure them.

We could go down the road now but we are not going down that tangent. You pivoted. I want to focus on that a little bit because a lot of people when they are writing and have written, and you had written quite a few books at that point, it can be hard. They can be a fork in the road. One of one option is quitting entirely because you are not having the results that you find but pivoting because it sometimes feels like starting over from scratch, which can be difficult.

It can be. Maybe it felt like a little bit at first but now, even only talking to you, I can see that I wasn’t pivoting even 180 degrees. It was much less than that because of a lot of the stuff I used. I often had mysteries within my romance. Like a woman searching for her birth mother and things like that or somebody not being able to have a child or discovering a child. They are different mysteries. They are not murders but it doesn’t all have to be about murder in a cozy mystery. There are other things going on.

I like that because from one perspective, as an author might look and be like, “This is a real pivot.” In terms of the effort and energy that you put into the actual writing or tone, not that different. Although, you have to market differently. You market them. I’m looking at those covers, and if you go to like Cheryl Phipps versus C.A. Phipps, the covers are going to be different. They are going to look very much like romance versus very much cozy.

They look very different. You said you were able to carry some people over because you didn’t split your list. Now, you started a new pen name but you didn’t split your list. One of the questions is Amazon’s algorithms. If you didn’t split your list, the only people that would follow are the ones who would be interested in cozies.

I’m not assuming on advocating it. It’s a very bad mood but at the time, before starting over with a new lester’s, it horrified me. I have some splitter. I do have some people on both lists. Was it a wise move? I don’t think it hurt me to put it that way. From there, I was able to go to my list and say, “This is what I’m doing. Would anybody like to be accurate? Would anybody like to be my reviewer?” I got those people.

There’s an overlap between sweet romance and cozy mystery in terms of readers. If you were able to find those people on your list who were reading leaned, sweet and cozy, you wouldn’t even have your Amazon algorithm because they would probably already be reading cozies.

Here’s the truth, though. The very first book I wrote for my latest series, it was a sweet romance. It was published with sweet promise priests. I got the right spec. It’s become the first book in one of my series. It took a lot of work. Do you know what? I wouldn’t bring it. Trying to thread through a mystery into a romance but I had the characters. They were good characters. I enjoyed the story.

You are like, “I don’t want to give that up. I love those characters. They need to have a life somewhere.”

I do. Now, they have. All these things that I do, I’m not saying, “Do these things.”

Better than giving up, I think.

The more work you put out there, the better you get.

I think so. I found my stride. Who’s to say what’s in the future but for me, this was a wise decision. I’m enjoying it, and I still have to find time to throw on a romance but I do have a couple of half-written. When I get a chance to breathe. For the moment now, for me, it’s all about the marketing and writing the next book. Every author says that.

That’s a good segue. What do you mean all about marketing?

Trying to do better with my marketing. I suck at Facebook ads. I have tried other things as well. I have even paid people to do my ads for me but it has never been with a great deal of success. By success, I mean getting back your money is wonderful. It’s fine but you’ve got to show a good increase to be able to carry on with this little thing or learn the dance stuff yourself, which takes time away from the writing. As a huge balancing act but we do have some great people that we know that have come on our podcasts that talk about marketing. I admire them and want to be with them.

I wish I liked it as much as you did. I look at that Facebook backend.

Everything they say makes sense but putting it into practice is another thing, and nobody likes to lose money.

The Facebook ads have a learning curve. That’s the part that you have to be ready to spend money while you are learning.

You have to have a budget. You have to say, “I’m going to tootle off here with this much money. If I lose it, I will still be able to eat this week.”

What have you been doing with your marketing? Obviously, you quit your job. Are you a full-time writer?

Yes, I have been since about 2017. Things happen and when they happen, you have to pivot, as we say. It doesn’t always work out like that when it’s health reasons and things like that. When that happens, you shouldn’t expect the world from yourself if you can’t give everything to some. When that happens, to be ticking along is okay. If you can afford to, that’s the key to it.

In marketing, you have to do what’s working at the time for you. Spending what you can afford at the time and increasing that. I have times when BookBub has worked well for me. I have done Amazon ads that have been relatively successful. What I find for me is my newsletter. Without my newsletter, I would sink because that’s something that we need. Even when you are not feeling well, you can usually manage to push one of those out, even if it was once a month. I do mine twice a month for both.

Not even that often.

No. That keeps me going even when I can’t do much more.

I have a couple of questions off that. How do you build your newsletter? How do you grow it?

For me, right at the beginning. I did some Ramsey mailing list builder. There’s also another place called Author XP. Any of these things are decent if they are buying your book, picking up your book or whatever they are doing to get on your mailing list. They like what you write or that genre because the two things aren’t necessarily the same thing. You will get people on there that are after a free book. It’s not something that you want to do continuously.

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: Try to keep the humor in your cozy mysteries.

To me, it’s something if you want to bump in your subscriber list, then that’s fine. By all means, do it all the time if you want but you have to be aware that you are going to get a lot of people that are going to unsubscribe very quickly or are there for the free book. They will languish on your list. Nobody wants to be paying for subscribers that aren’t loving your work. That’s all you want. You want the people that love your work.

You can do a bump. Wait a month, 6 weeks, whatever, then send 3 newsletters. See who doesn’t open them in three.

I’m pretty generous. I let them languish there for a while because you don’t know what slightly about it. They will think, “That sounds interesting.”

At least, that will get them through a release.

Get them to get your pre-order if you possibly can. That’s another thing that I wanted to mention on the sideways. There was the Goodreads giveaway where you can give away like 100 books, and people will sign up for the giveaway, then they max your book as to be read on their page. Not necessarily buy the book. They might not buy it now but they might buy it in the future.

Meanwhile, you could get a thousand people applying for that giveaway. You are only giving away 100 eBooks. People get frightened of giving away stuff. I’m not sure why because if they read it and like it, they are going to come back from more, especially if you’ve got a series. It’s brilliant to give away something. They jumped right in and read a whole lot.

I agree. I like giving away because I can either spend money on marketing or I cannot make money. I’m not losing anything by giving away free copies of the book. It doesn’t cost me anything but it does cost me to go use Facebook ads.

Time, checking, and tweaking.

On Goodreads giveaway, a thousand people sign up. It’s on their TBR. Besides the hundred people who might win, the thousand people. Is that the benefit? Is that how you show up in their life?

They are like, “I didn’t win,” but that looked cool. I might give it a chance.” I often put up the first book in a series for $2.99. That’s a good deal. They are like, “I will give it a chance. If I don’t like it, it’s only $2.99.” It’s not even a cup of coffee.

When you are sending your newsletter, and it’s not a new release, do you still find your sales going up on those days? What do you have in your newsletter?

I always sell. I have a little blurb about me. I don’t divulge too much of my personal life but I do give them snippets. I do give them insights about my husband. I call himself, so that’s himself. A lot of people will mention their husbands like the first initial or something like that. It’s himself, and he did this or did that. It’s very short. It’s something to do with the grandchildren or we went away, and I will be on holiday. This happened at the avenue.

Trying to make it light and funny because people want that, especially now. I have a little what’s on the newsletter, so they don’t have to go too far to read that. If they like what they are reading like, “That’s a free book, I’ve got a free exit or I’ve got a recommendation.” That’s in my what’s in the newsletter. I always put it in a couple of pictures of something. Often my dog because she’s crazy.

Pet pics. Everybody likes it. They are like, “She has one. I do too.” We did that before we started talking, I was like, “My cat might,” and you are like, “Mine too.”

Find some way to release your joy and have somebody understand you.

We were doing a podcast. I could hear my dog barking, and I’m muted but logistically, my dog will always be around somewhere. She may as well appear in my newsletter.

Do you have a link to your latest book or pre-order?

There’s always a link in there down the bottom where you have your social links. I have all the social links in there but I always link to something. At the moment, I’ve got a pre-order up. It’s a long pre-order. By the time it comes out, it’s going to be pushing three months up there. I already hit a hundred pre-orders and it’s still got a month to go. It might not be 3 months or maybe be 2 but anyway. I was putting it in the newsletter. I’m not advertising. Not doing ads on Facebook for it or anything like that.

Letting the people who have asked to hear from you. Letting them know, “There’s something coming up.

They will get free stuff and the other ones with the pre-orders. The other ones that will read it. As soon as it comes out and put up a review. That’s worth gold. If you can get 10, 20 reviews up in the first few days, that’s a good life.

Do you have an arc team for reviews?

I have an arc team. I’ve got them confused before. I was saying that I also got beta readers when I first started cozies through my newsletter. I have three beta readers, then I have an act team all between 20 and 40 because some of those will only review my romance but some of them will review both. Some of them, there’s probably half a dozen that I go to my cozies. If I want to ask a question, it’s a little bit of an extra for them because they are always reviewing. It is always great reviews. It’s what you are really working on.

You are like, “Thank you. There’s something for you.” We talked a little bit about this like an abundance mindset and being generous. If I remember correctly, you are the woo-woo person.

No, I’m not the woo-woo. I’m the least woo-woo out of all of them but I do believe in what you put out there. You get better. If these people or your readers are getting something from you, they are getting a product which you think has good enough for them to have. What they are giving you back is that they are going to tell other people. If they enjoy not only your book but what you represent. They are going to want to share it because why wouldn’t they? People can recommend them so many ways, it can be word of mouth or they can put it on their Facebook where they can do wonderful reviews.

I have some other list of questions that I didn’t from earlier because I want to touch on a little bit because when you said your author journey started. I want to touch on the conferences thing because that’s quite curious and the having other writers that you chat with regularly. Sometimes, I save some of my favorite topics for the end. I don’t know why I do that. They are all topics.

I’m curious about all of them but sometimes, when I’m interviewing, I’m like, “This topic is one of my favorites, and it’s at the very end. Who knows that they will even get to this?” It’s underappreciated, under-talked about, and not represented as much when you are looking at the successful authors, “How did they make it? What did they do?” Is having writer friends or a writer community?

I have no doubt in my mind that if it wasn’t for my writer friends and the communities that I have put myself into. When I was younger, I was more shy than I am now. If it weren’t for them, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t have written so many books. I wouldn’t have backed myself. I certainly wouldn’t have quit my job. I wouldn’t have started a podcast. People who believe in you give you faith in yourself. That’s very important and somewhat emotional because you need that. You need that for the bad times as well as the good.

Maybe almost specifically for them bad times as the good but both. We think of it as such a solitary job. When I was growing up, anytime I thought about being a writer, it was like at a desk. Maybe a little bit like Henry Miller looking with a shot glass and a cigar in the dark. Not that I drank, smoked or knew anybody that smoked because I grew a Mormon but that was the idea. Even still, you might be looking at other writing books where it’s like, “Make a nice little cozy spot in your house.”

On Pinterest or something you are looking at like, “Look at all these little nooks that people write and stuff like this.” You have this idea of what it looks like when it doesn’t usually involve other people at all either. I don’t think that’s accurate. How would you say in your day-to-day, week-to-week, how much do you interact with your author friends?

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: It doesn’t all have to be about murder in a cozy mystery; other things can go on.

There can be days where there’s no visual contact but they are always messaging me. We have our little Messenger group. In fact, I belong to two Messenger groups. One of my podcasts girls and one of my writing buddies, other writing buddies. We are always on there. Sometimes, it can be a bit of a toxic but sometimes, it’s necessary. It’s not necessary but throwing away time is giving time. Like I say, if you give it out there, then you will get it back. If somebody wants to ask a question, why wouldn’t you answer it if you know the answer? You will feel free next time if you’ve got a query. Not even that, like something, happened in their day, trouble at home or trouble wherever.

It helps, especially now, here in the US. There has been a lot of social distancing. People are doing it less but I’m still on because COVID is still happening. It could be very isolating. It’s having even somebody out there, especially with somebody who loves the same things you do, who’s doing the same things you do, who is taking action like you are. It’s like, “How is your release going? How are you?”

Sometimes you want to shout it from the rooftops. In your room and your office, it’s only a vacuum. It’s only you. Find some way to get that out, release the joy and have somebody understand because even your loved ones, if they are not an author, if they are not doing this as a job, then they don’t get it. You put hours into this baby. Sometimes, you would rather be doing something else, quite frankly.

Like, “This isn’t work.”

“Now, tell me I’m a good girl.”

Honestly, I have times when I will go to people and with my friends, and I will ask for feedback on something, I’m saying, “Can you give me some feedback on this but I’m feeling sensitive, so five stars only now. I don’t want the critical feedback at this point. I only need you to be like, ‘Five stars,’ then expound on that but five stars only.”

Maybe tomorrow.

I will do that or I will be like, “Can I vent for a minute?” If I get a review, I’m like, “Can you believe they said that?” I don’t take them super personally anymore but I still like to vent a little bit about a bad review.

If you are going to look at your face, I’m not saying that you should too much but if you see one that is horrendous, then you go and find a five-star review and make yourself feel better immediately. Don’t dwell on that.

That’s where I go. I go to my friend. She’s like, “That’s bogus. This doesn’t make any sense. They don’t know anything.”

They probably don’t even like that book.

We have a clip that we will set for each other. I will maybe send it to you. See if you like it. It’s from the movie Chef, which is not a well-known movie. It’s not like everybody knows this movie but there’s a scene where the main character is a chef. One of those food bloggers comes to this restaurant and critiques his lava cake. He’s at his breaking point. He comes out and like, “It’s effing molten. It’s supposed to be.” He explains it. I liked the movie. I thought this once where I had my aunt watch it. She was like, “That scene.” I will put it in my next newsletter.

That’s a good idea because I can see how that would fit. It wasn’t a real thing. You didn’t understand it.

You didn’t understand it, and it’s exactly how it’s supposed to be but you always wished that we could say to the people.

If you believe you can do your craft, you should jump in, boots and all.

It’s like explaining a joke, isn’t it?

I know. I’m sorry, you guys. Go watch the clip. The way I explained it wasn’t that good.

When you get your reviews, if you have to explain to that reviewer why they were wrong, it’s never going to work.

This is very meta because it’s both. I put Star Trek jokes in one of my books. I had somebody who’s like, “That’s not what the Star Trek. You couldn’t make that.” It was like, “You want to bet?” I was like, “Can I respond to this review?” You cannot respond to that but I’m right.

Lock the good ones and walk away from the bad.

That’s why you need an author friend to talk you down, to talk you through whatever you need to talk through. We are going to close up soon. I have 1 or 2 final questions. The one final question is, what is your best advice that you would give to somebody who wants to be a successful indie author?

Apart from learning your craft, understand what it takes to even more than being an author to self-publish a book or whatever route you are wanting to down of what the ramifications are of it, what it would take. If you believe that you can do that, then you should jump in boots and all. If you don’t, it’s not for the faint-hearted.

Thank you for saying that. I have a program but I have looked at a lot of other programs and one thing that people will do to sell their program to make money that way is to be like, “You have to do this one thing, and you will make money.” I don’t say that because I’m like, “It isn’t just one thing. It’s a lot of work,” all over. I’m like, “This isn’t for everyone. It’s a lot of work but if you are willing to do the work, it’s possible.”

You have to understand what the work could look like. You can’t appreciate the business right from the get-go but there are lots of people that can tell you about what it’s going to look like. You take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. On the whole, authors are very honest about how where they have reached. Go to some Facebook groups, find your people.

Listen to the SPA Girls Podcast. They are very real.

We have talked to so many people. There are so many good episodes. There were people that were doing it. They are living the life, and it didn’t fall on their lap.

No, there are so many people with stories like yours, where I wrote all these romances, then I had to pivot a little bit. I know lots of people who were writing and releasing for four years, who had released like 25 books. We were making like a couple of hundred dollars a month, pivoted. Now they are making multiple five figures a month. They had to pivot and it was a lot of work.

Contemporary romance is the biggest genre. You are competing with so many people. Unless you’ve got something that’s either right on point or a little bit different. You are in this big pole.

Maybe your real passion is something else, and the universe was telling you, “You don’t need to be writing contemporary romance because you are not loving it as much as I am woo-woo.” I’m going to be like, “Maybe the universe was like, ‘We are not going to let you make money on this because it’s not fulfilling you as much as you should be in your life. We are going to force you to pivot until you find the thing that you are passionate about.’”

ALAB 120 | Cozy Mysteries
Cozy Mysteries: If you see a horrendous bad review, go and find a five-star review to immediately make yourself feel better.

Sometimes it takes time.

That takes time. Where’s the best place for people to find you?

At CherylPhipps.com or CAPhipps.com. Not too hard. I’m on all the social platforms under @CherylPhipps or @CAPhippsAuthor. Come join me. Come say hi if you want that free cookbook.

You know I am because I’m trying new things. We talked about food, baking, and how much it’s delicious. I will be. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Ella. To your audience, everybody takes care and be kind.

Thank you, everybody, for reading. Hugs and happy authoring here at Author Like a Boss.

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About Cheryl Phipps

ALAB 120 | Cozy MysteriesC. A. Phipps is a USA Today best-selling author from beautiful Auckland, New Zealand. Cheryl lives in a world where coffee is a must, pie never lasts long, and mysteries add excitement to the day. She’s bringing her zest for life out of the kitchen and into your world with light-hearted books and endearing characters and pets. Light on romance, but heavy on other ingredients, come to a place where friends, even the furry kind, matter as much as family. Her alter ego Cheryl Phipps writes contemporary romance in a similar vein, but with more romance and always with a happy ever after!

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