There is so much more authors can do with their books. In fact, it need not only provide you with one income stream. You can leverage them to provide you with multiple streams of income. Today’s guest is proof that this is possible. Ella Barnard sits with Willow Winters, an author who has over 50 books published and continues to deliver addictive love stories. In this episode, Willow shares how she has built an empire around her writing and even extended it to a nonprofit community. She talks about utilizing her works and creating audiobooks and merchandise from them. What is more, Willow also talks about the importance of investing in beautiful book covers, how you need to find your community, and being authentic.
—
Listen to the podcast here
An Author’s Guide To Building Multiple Streams Of Income And Creating An Empire With Willow Winters
We are here with the lovely and always beautiful, Willow Winters. Willow writes endless happily ever afters from small town to epic mafia romances. With over 50 books published, she continues to deliver addictive love stories. Thank you so much, Willow.
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your author’s journey?
I used to read chick-lit in college. I was a super nerd. I read every so often with my ex-boyfriend’s sister. She would give me all of her books when she was done because I was broke as a joke. I had never read romance. I did not graduate with an English degree. My worst subject in school was English. Never in my life did I think that this would be my career.
In the lowest of lows of my life, I quit the PhD program and had jury duty. My friend, Natalie, my ex-boyfriend’s sister, gave me Fifty Shades of Grey. I took it to jury duty with me because I had no idea what this book was about but everybody else in that room sure did. I got to the elevator scene, looked up and three women were watching me. One of them waved. They knew what I was reading and that did not stop me. I kept reading. I couldn’t put it down and I fell in love with romance novels.
I became a stay-at-home mom. I lost a little bit of my identity because I was always the smart one and then all of a sudden, I was Sean’s wife and Jackson’s mom. During Evie’s pregnancy. I read 1 romance book a day or sometimes 2. She was born and I felt this need to write. I thought, “Maybe I can make a couple of bucks if I put it up on KDP,” which is Kindle Direct Publishing. I put it up there thinking maybe I could afford coffee with a fun little hobby I had that nobody seemed to take seriously. Within a year, my husband quit his job as a chemist because I made his yearly salary in a single month. Back then, I knew that this ceiling was high. This was a challenge that I could take on if I had help. He has been my rock and we have been doing it ever since.
I haven’t had kids, which my audience knows. It’s difficult for me sometimes but I have a sister who has kids. For a lot of women, part of the challenge is when they become a mother to society. They’re like, “I’m more than that.”
My husband and I were watching Game of Thrones with a friend. It was the friend who told me about KDP. We were having a conversation about something and this was when I had Jackson. I was pregnant with Evie at the time. He said very honestly, “I forgot you were smart.” He didn’t mean it in a way to be disrespectful. He was drinking. We were all having a good time but it was an honest moment. I said, “You and everybody else.” I was a salutatorian in high school. I have a BA in Neuroscience and a BS in Biology. I was always a nerd and then I wasn’t.
When people ask, “What do you do?” I would say, “I’m a stay-at-home mom.” It’s immediately, “What does your husband do?” That’s the way they treated romance novels in the beginning too. They would say, “What do you do?” I say, “I write romance novels.” Very dismissively, they’re like, “What does your husband do?” I’m like, “He works for me,” and then they always say, “Tell me about it.”
Romance deserves to be on the top shelf.
I also think that sometimes, you might be talking to the wrong people because when I tell people I write romance novels, they’re like, “What’s your book?” Thank you because that’s partially why I do this. There are so many women out there who have good stories in them. I’m like, “Please share them.” I’m thinking, “How did she go from thinking of deciding to write and put it on KDP to earning within a year?” How did that happen? I’m sure the smart part helps. Tell us how that helps.
The algorithm was very different a couple of years ago. I was in Kindle Unlimited. I was releasing a book a month and co-writing at the time so it was easy to release it. I had developed this Facebook group and a newsletter list so as soon as I launched, I knew I was going to hit the top 50 of the Amazon algorithm because I had that movement. I had multiple books in the top 200 at all times.
Now, authors are spending thousands a day on a single book to maintain a high rank in KU or these viral TikToks are taking off and shoving them in there. If you can’t get the ads going quickly enough, you might fall. The algorithm is working differently. It used to be 80 out of the top 100 were bare man chest covers in Amazon and they’ve changed things around since then.
Thank you. I like that honesty in saying it is different now than it was.
It’s much harder but I imagine it’s much easier now than it will be in years. If anybody is thinking about doing it, do it because it’s only going to get more difficult.
In the context of life and work that we could be doing, the fact that I can go write something on my laptop, find a cover for a couple of hundred bucks, put it up there and then do a newsletter giveaway and get some people to read it is a miracle. Different strategies help but to me, even if you can find your audience, then a single person can be a publishing house.
This leads to one of the things. If you don’t know Willow Winters, I’ve been following her for a little while on TikTok. She’s a very big presence on TikTok. She always looks beautiful and put together. One of the questions I have for you is you have a lot of things that you’re doing. You have an empire. I’ve looked at your website not just for this but also before. You got Swags with all your books with different covers, TikToks and writing. I will want to go into some of these but how do you do that?
I have all of the pillars of my empire and I try to make them work with each other. I have a nonprofit that I started at the beginning of COVID, which took a little while to get it running but we donate audiobook players to facilities, nursing homes and hospitals that have low to no mobility patients and individuals so that they can at least listen to books. We’re hoping to expand that to include a children’s version as well soon and that is supported by a publishing house called Top Shelf Romance.
I reach out to a lot of author friends of mine and ask, “Would you put a book into a box set with me and with these other authors?” We do and all of that goes towards the nonprofit. I’m hoping that I can help other authors with Top Shelf Romance at some point as well. I also have my shop in which I have merchandise that supports Top Shelf Romance and Live a Thousand Lives. There, I have my signed books and other merchandise as well. Hopefully, I’ll have a bookstore soon. I’m hoping that we can do that.
A physical bookstore?
Yes. My husband is refusing to call it a store and wants to call it headquarters. He says we will not open doors but I would love to do book signings. I also would love to get all of this stuff out of my house so that I can separate work from personal a little bit. I had made an app and we’re working on tweaking a few things about it. It’s a fun gaming app that can also advertise books. You can use the merchandise that I have in the shop so you can dress up the avatar, play these games and have this book club within this app. I’m also writing.
Plus, you’re on social media. I love that you have all these multiple streams of income. You’ve taken the writing and what you’ve done and made it so that the books are not the only thing that makes money. Even the books themselves have different ways of making money. It’s not just one way so I love that.
I’m hitting multiple markets. I talk about that all the time.
When you’re doing this, is it just you and your husband and you’re doing all the things?
No. I have several paychecks that I pay at the end of every month. I have two PR teams that help me make sure that I’m on point to launch each of my books. I still co-write some books like Amelia Wilde. I had to co-write with her to hit a deadline. I was telling her about the book, she loved it and helped me with the plot. I looked at my deadline and was like, “Do you know how you like that book idea? I’m in a little bit of a jam.” I still have help with co-writing with her.
I have my two PR teams. I have my assistant Sophie, who is VP of Operations. She’s ahead of Sean. Every day I wake up and go to my Facebook messages. She has a message, “You have a show at 3:45. It is one day before this so it’s a hosted giveaway. It’s this book’s birthday.” I forward emails to her from the shop. I have Lauren who lives four houses down. She does all of my shipping. She has my merchandise and books in her basement and dining room table. It’s full. She is on board for a bookstore as well. I have four content creators and Sophie has an assistant for things as well. I have a lot of people who are helping me so that I can delegate as much as possible and focus on writing, content creation and any type of ideas that I have because they have more ideas.
The more we can help each other, the further romance goes as a genre. It needs more respect than it gets.
I want to cry a little bit when you said, “I delegate as much as possible.” That makes me so happy. Thank you for sharing all that too because even I have my things going and I’m like, “I’m so busy. I need help,” I hired my first PA but I’m realizing that it isn’t just one person doing it all.
There’s no way I could. Have you ever read the book Essentialism?
No.
It is excellent, not just for writers or business-oriented people but also for anybody. It’s about saying no to certain things in a way that you find the people who want to do it and go faster with them together. I recommend it to everybody.
I love the idea. Part of my mission in this second version of the show is to try to give women permission to get help and not do it all themselves. We have so much more power when we’re doing what we love and letting other people help us. Also, those other people that we get to pay are doing what they love. We get to give them the gift. Not everybody is a writer so I get to give somebody the gift of doing what they love and paying the money. We all become wealthier together.
That book delves into that as well as a few other things. It’s an excellent read.
I will read that because I like the idea of saying no and finding people who want to say yes. That sounds like magic. I want to talk about the multiple streams of income and utilizing your books. Can we talk a little bit about that? I’m bopping around a little bit and at first, you wrote books and then your husband quit. You’ve got all these pillars and a nonprofit. How did you grow the streams of income as you’re going?
At first, I made unfortunate business decisions. I sold audio rights. They still have audio rights that I wish I had because I would have been making so much more money with it. I only created this store because I was buying Swag to do giveaways with. I love giveaways. It’s a wonderful way to advertise. My friend Lauren came over. She wanted to help me because I was so overwhelmed. She said, “Why don’t we make a store?” That is her baby. She started that aspect of the business and took on herself.
As we were growing, the nonprofit was Top Shelf Romance because of COVID. I saw that if we all promoted together, we could do something great. At the time, it wasn’t for the nonprofit. I hadn’t created Live a Thousand Lives yet so we were putting books together and using different covers to market. Instead of these sexy man chests, it was these very romantic couples.
I looked at my books and thought, “I have a lot here but I’m only targeting one market.” There are a lot of other markets out there. I can put books that are the same trope together, put the series together and create these much thicker books that readers aren’t going to ignore because they’re 200 pages or less. They’re very thick boys and have a more luxurious type of cover. From there, I thought of every idea that I could have to hit every market that I possibly can because romance deserves to be on the top shelf. It’s the number one genre. Manga is showing up to play but romance is still number one.
Some readers don’t want the sexy covers. They don’t want romantic couples. They want it to look like decor on their shelf that they present to anybody. I wanted to provide that so I have these decadent editions where it’s $110 for this 4-book series. They are expensive. Originally, this was a 4-book series in KU at $0.99. It’s presented in many different ways to reach as many readers as possible.
I appreciate that. Also, it’s taking the work that you’ve done because it takes hours and hours to write a book.
It takes a lot of your heart and soul too. It has destroyed my body because I often sit cross-legged on my sofa and hunched over a laptop.
I have a back thing that I’m wearing to help me sit up straight because I sit here at this computer all the time. My back needs me to not put all the pressure on it because I’m getting older. It helps to be able to take that heart and soul all that time and be able to repurpose it in a lot of different ways. I do have a question though. If you’re starting and you have your book out for $0.99, do you immediately go have the $25 or $100 for the box set? When would you say is a good time?
It’s when you can invest in it. I started by doing my covers and they were horrific. I was able to put everything that I was making back into it because my husband was supporting us. I was putting all of the income that I was making right back in. When you can afford to do it, do it. I’m doing these expensive editions on Kickstarter. I love using Kickstarter that way and you could do it for audio as well.
Also, I believe Google Play is doing audiobooks for free. It’s not actual people that are doing it. They’re using computer-generated narration. You could always try that. It doesn’t cost you anything. You could give that a go and see if you can create an income through that type of audiobook until you can hire the narrator of your choice. If you love Sebastian York, you can utilize his platform. I do love Kickstarter because that fills in the space between starting, having the means to accomplish great things and giving your books a higher position in different avenues for different markets.
Your readers aren’t there for your sales. They are there for the connection and support.
I did an episode with Oriana Leckert. She’s the Kickstarter lady over at Kickstarter for books. You can go check it out.
I love her. I talk to her via email. I’m going to do a few more posts and an article about Kickstarter for authors as well.
I’ve talked about Kickstarter. I also interviewed Russell Nohelty. I do love Kickstarter. I’m like, “What can I do?” I need to get more delegating and get more people that I can delegate to so I can do the things that I’m excited about. I love the advice of doing it as you can because it implies that you’re growing your business. As you can means that more people are buying your things so by the time that you can maybe do the fancy covers and invest in those, you have the income to do it because you have more fans.
You have more of a reach for not only your audience but for that audience who’s going to echo you and reach more people.
You love connecting with readers and it’s obvious because of your TikTok but also, here you are. I talk to authors all the time but you’re so good at connecting. I feel like I already knew you before and people will come to me like that too. It’s weird because I’m talking to a microphone. How do you do that? First, let’s talk practically and then emotionally or energetically. What would you say?
Practically, I do have my phone on me all the time. I have to set aside time if I’m going to be with my family. It used to be very difficult for me. My oldest son, Jackson, had his birthday party and my phone was somewhere. I had no idea where throughout the entire party and that was probably only the second time. The first time was on my daughter’s birthday that I went for hours without checking my phone because I’ll write a chapter and my reward for writing a chapter is doing a TikTok and checking my messages. It is so motivating for me.
Every day, somebody tells me how much they love my books and somebody wants to know about something. I have these ideas. The Discreet series that I have, it’s all of my books numbered in publishing order and color-coded by tropes. A reader suggested doing sprayed edges on the hardbacks of those. I was like, “That’s an excellent idea. I’m going to do it.” Readers give me ideas, inspiration and motivation. I love it. I feel like I’m a part of a community. I didn’t have that when I was reading that chick-lit or when I was pregnant with Evie. I didn’t know about Facebook groups. I missed out on a lot of that.
This might not be my career. I could have seen myself being a blogger because I love romance books so much had I known about Facebook groups and entered that way rather than writing my books and then entering the community. I want to help other authors. If a TikTok is going to push you up, is it better than to spend ads? What book should you be spending that little bit of money that you have on? Everybody has a budget. The more we can help each other, the further romance goes as a genre. It needs more respect than it gets.
The very fact that New York Times doesn’t allow indie authors to be on their list the week after Lauren Blakely hit number one, I remember thinking, “What a slap in the face.” The more that I can do for this genre and this community, the more I want to do because it changed my life for the better. I’m always on my phone practically and then energetically, that is also my answer. It is my passion.
Not every author has that. Not all of us are fueled.
When I started, I was scared. My picture was me holding a mic in front of my face. My husband didn’t want my face out there. It was an accident too. It was my son’s birthday. I meant to post on my Facebook but I posted on Willow. All of these people started commenting happy birthday. They were so happy for him and me. I didn’t want to delete it because it made them happy and it made me happy to share it with them.
I also wanted to do a signing so I was like, “You’re going to have to get over this. This is something I want to do even though I do get death threats and other types of things.” I write dark romance. The sixth book that I ever wrote had dubious consent in it and there were some horrible messages. It’s going to be that way. The more eyes you have on you, the more people aren’t going to like you so I hold onto the people who do because that’s the way it is.
What would you say to somebody who is starting? You’re very knowledgeable. The smart is coming through in this. I do think that a lot of people are very nervous about interacting and connecting before they start. It turns out that it’s easier than you think because people like you. It’s still not for everybody. My co-writer best friend is 100% introvert and it is not 100% but for the people who are thinking that they maybe could, how would you start?
Always start with your books because the people are following you for your books. Be genuine. The more genuine you can be, the easier it’s going to be and then everything is going to flow very naturally. I’m thinking about putting this deleted scene that I had into my newsletter. Ask them, “Would you want that? Would you join there or should I put it in my Facebook group?” You give them an option to respond where it’s a yes or no or this or that. They’re going to respond to that because they’re following you for your books and then you have these other platforms that they might be on.
You can also listen to them. If they say, “I don’t do newsletters. I hate them. They always go into my spam. Could you do a Patreon?” You’d be genuinely interacting with them. They’re offering support and you can listen to them. You’re supporting them by providing the content that they’re looking for and then they’re supporting you in ways that you might not even realize are possible. That’s where the magic happens.
Your readers aren’t there for your sales. It’s there for the connection and the support. I don’t know if some of the readers have ever read one of my books before but there are some readers that I know when I post something about my books, they will have an opinion on it. They’ll contribute to that, which helps the algorithm. They’ll talk about my books and remember my books. They remember me and want to help. It’s a support system. People like helping.
Everybody loves to be included.
I always used to hate asking for help and then I saw this quote that says, “One of the best things you can do is to simply include them.” Everybody loves to be included. That’s one of the best things you can do. That also made it easier for me to reach out to people and ask them for help, which is a great thing to do in the author community.
The way you talk about your readers, it sounds like they’re your potential or already friends. They’re not there for sales. It’s for support.
It’s a tribe. There’s another book that I love. It’s called Tribe. That’s the way that I see it. Also, I love what somebody else said. If we talk about a community like we’re always looking for a Northern Star, it’s not that it’s a constellation. There are so many points that will guide and help you. I forget who said that but it was brilliant. I wish I could remember it. If we are a tribe or a community, I might be a Northern Star to a lot of people at a certain point but you are the constellation that is helping me to build this empire and to provide, help and reach the goals that all of us have. I love it. That’s more of the way I like to think about my readers, followers or supporters in any way.
Women especially have a big block around marketing because we have this understanding that before we learn better or differently, marketing is trying to convince people to buy something they don’t want. It took me a long time to get those myself. You’re not trying to maneuver and manipulate people. Women are excellent at this.
If you think about the way that you talk to your friends about a good pizza place, you’re like, “This is the best pizza I’ve had. You have to try it.” You want them to try it because you’ll know they’ll love it, not because you’re trying to sell the pizza. It’s the same way with books but if we, as authors, can think about our readers as friends, supporters or people that we get to help, women are great at that. We are great at thinking about the people that we love and trying to give them what they need. You can use that for marketing, which you are.
I had an experience when I was in college when I was super broke. The other sister of the same ex-boyfriend was having a Tupperware party. I signed up for the Tupperware party so I’d get the free stuff and she said, “Invite them.” I said, “I’m going to invite them. I’m going to let them know they don’t have to buy anything.” She was like, “Don’t say it like that. The way that you have to say it is, ‘I want you to come over so I can tell you about this stuff because you’re going to love it. Even if you can’t get it, at least you’ll know where you can get it when you do need it.’”
I thought that was brilliant because she was right. I freaking loved it all. My friends would love it all but there’s a psychology in saying like, “You don’t have to buy it,” and putting a negative tone on it. It’s more like, “I know you’re going to love it. Here it is for when you want it.” That’s exactly the way I think about it. I also love marketing. I worked in sales. I used to be a Clinique beauty consultant.
This is why she’s so put together because she knows what she’s doing. That has explained so much to me. You’re on TikTok all the time making all these videos with your phone as a reward for finishing a chapter. I’m trying to work myself up to be able to have the energy because it is the next one that I’m going to start. I also like the interaction but I’m like, “Once I start, I have to go all the way in consistently. Let me get a couple of things arranged in my life and then jump in.” How do you interact with people?
You can’t be scared. Procrastination is rooted in fear and a lot of people are afraid that people aren’t going to like them. The algorithm will give you the people who do. That’s the one thing about the TikTok algorithm. My followers are 98% female. I know that if I’m talking about smutty mom romance, there are going to be a bunch of guys who would want to make fun of it. The algorithm isn’t showing it to them. It’s showing it to the women who want to read it and to the men who want to read it too. You have to let go of thinking, “Somebody is not going to like this.” Instead focus on, “Let’s find the people who are my vibe and who are going to love this. Let’s have fun with it.”
Somebody messaged me that they’re going through a difficult time but they love being on my page because it’s such a positive vibe. That’s what I think about. You’re not there to feed the trolls. You are there for the people who are feeding your soul and filling you. Focus on finding your friends. Maybe it’s not the same thing as your best friend who lives four houses down and you get drunk on Wednesdays but still.
I want to go on to TikTok. I have so many things that I want to say and I’m going to have to not say all the things that I want to say because I want to create a place where people can come for positivity. How do you decide what to talk about?
What do I want them to hear? When I saw that Jennifer L. Armentrout was disregarded in New York Times, it pissed me off. Do I want to spread the negativity that romance as a genre and indie publishers are still being disrespected and disregarded? If you’re going to have a most sold list, it should be most sold. It should not be, “Except for the people that I don’t feel deserve it,” which is what that is.
Do I want to share that or do I want to share, “Check out this gorgeous cover. I love that she did this. I’m going to be doing a giveaway,” which is what I did. I did a new release giveaway and congrats for the USA Today giveaway. I’m promoting it that way in this positive way and keeping it light, happy and positive although my time and energy offline is being dedicated to pushing the romance genre to be better than fantasy. We are everywhere in every way possible so we cannot be avoided. They have to acknowledge the fact that we are selling better and deserve to be on those lists. What is most important at that moment for them to hear?
You also mentioned romance a few times. I love romance. I’m a feminist. I’ve been reading romance since I was thirteen. I used to be embarrassed when I was in my teens and early twenties by all the romance that I read. Wherever I was, I was hiding. Now, it doesn’t make any sense to me. These books are about love and might have some smutty in them. What’s wrong with that? Nothing.
Our culture doesn’t treat it that it’s morally neutral. What is most ironic is you will have people promote Game of Thrones, which has incest and violence and yet, they look at a smutty book and think, “How could you do that?” We’re like, “You’re promoting things that are morally negative.”
I’ve had this thought many times for years. It’s so bizarre how violence is so accepted specifically in the US culture and sex is not. Traditionally, it is an expression of love and violence is not. Violence is an expression of fear and hate and yet, one is socially acceptable and the other is not. I love romance, women are reading everywhere and it’s women’s ideals. We’re like, “This is what we deserve and we’re reading about it because it doesn’t exist in real life for everyone.”
Don’t feed the trolls; instead, feed the people who feed your soul and fill you.
Fifty Shades of Grey paved the way and also Bridgerton with Shonda Rhimes taking Julia Quinn’s series. We are seeing some very mainstream cultural shifts and are more accepting of the fact that we like sex. We like reading about it and seeing people fall in love
365 days too.
Number two dropped. We’re finally seeing these movements and with that, romance novels are moving. Discreet covers are becoming more socially acceptable so that we can be more inclusive of cultures and areas within the United States as well as outside of the United States where there is judgment for that type of material but it is being read and that is step one, being read, seen and accepted. Step two is it being shouted to the world. We are getting our message across that sex is morally neutral. Stop making it shameful. This is real literature and it’s making real change.
Stop judging women who like reading or writing about it. It’s a shame. I’m getting more stimulation from this book than I will ever get from a dude on TikTok.
The thing is that we’re not learning about this in school. We’re learning more about our sexual health and sexual well-being in romance novels. Men should have to read romance novels in high school and that way they can learn about, “Afterwards, we don’t just say goodbye and leave.”
That’s one of the things I enjoy about your TikToks. I like your other ones but I love those too because I feel powerful. I’m like, “I’m a romance reader. Hear me roar in orgasm while I’m reading somebody’s book but not telling that person that I did that.”
I love them too. I did one that was something about, “You’re a mother. You shouldn’t be writing those types of books.” I’m like, “I can. I’m showing my children how to run a business, how to go after your passion and I’m creating a healthy environment for falling in love, having not only sexual but also emotional development and understanding,” which is also lacking in education.
Mine too. That’s why I love helping women writers make money. I love empowering women to do what they love and then have power, which in our society, money and power are the same. I want women to have more power and that means having more money, especially want women to have that when they’re doing what they love. It’s possible. Look at Willow. She was not doing this a couple of years ago and then she’s got nonprofits and is on a tear for romance. That’s because of the work, love and money.
I kept going. There were times when I considered quitting when it got hard but always keep going.
What are some of the things that helped when it got hard?
It’s the community. In my first year, I got into an argument with another writer who was an absolute a-hole. I thought, “I don’t need to do this or be a part of this. This is awful. I don’t want anything to do with this anymore.” I also ran myself right into the ground with Kindle Unlimited and was writing. Both times, I would get a message from an author asking, “Do you want to do this? What’s going on with this?” Immediately, I was like, “I do.” If they asked, “How are you doing?” I’m like, “I’m in a low.” They’re like, “We have low lows and high highs but you’re at the low lows so let’s get back up.” Maybe that’s another reason why I had so much love for the community. Low lows happen. Everybody experiences them. It is cyclical, which means you’re always going to have those high highs again so keep going.
You’ve had enough of them so if you’re in the middle of a low low, you’re like, “This is a low low.”
It goes so much faster when you can accept, “This is a moment. Let’s get back up,” and then you put your energy into the good stuff.
We’re talking a lot about giving back to the community. I love the indie author community because it’s so generous. It’s built from abundance because readers don’t just read one book so I can recommend your books, my books or anybody else’s book because the person is going to keep buying them.
When we co-promote, we’re helping not only our authors but also our readers and ourselves.
Everybody wins in this community. If I promote Willow, I win too. I love that because I don’t think there are a lot of industries that are like that. It’s so much fun. I take that with me even on the helping authors’ side. You have a Patreon and maybe more that I don’t even know about because it seems like you have all kinds of things going on. Can you tell us one of the ways that you can give back to the author community?
Sex is morally neutral. Stop making it shameful.
I have four tiers on the Patreon. The first 3 are for readers and then the 4th one is for authors. I do a monthly critique. I have a critique badge so you can give me a blurb, a cover or whatever it is. I have focused tasks where I’ll say, “This is how you calculate read-through. Go through all of your sales for a series. Let’s look at where there are weak angles together.” That way, you can know whether or not you’re losing readers. It’s little things like that that you don’t always have in the community or maybe you don’t have guidance from somebody knowledgeable.
There are a lot of people who give advice and sometimes, I’m like, “Don’t take that advice,” so I offer that. I also have that for free but not on Patreon. I have a TikTok called Willow Author Insight. I answer questions and give advice there as well. I don’t have time to do direct one-on-one stuff via TikTok because it reaches a lot of people.
You have Willow Winters and W Winters. Did those start together or did they start separate?
No. I started writing with this mafia romance but it is mafia light. It did not delve into very deep emotion or have some triggering aspects that were a part of the plot. It was a very sexy romance. I then wrote some small town and went back to some abduction-type stuff. After that, I went to New York City’s high elite social class. There’s this bouncing around as one does.
I then wrote something very dark. It had DBS consent. It’s like Beauty and the Beast but in real life. You cannot put somebody in a cellar and everybody is okay with that. I realized very quickly that some of my readers are not these readers. Everybody has their boundaries and limits so I thought, “I should go ahead and make sure that my marketing is on point.
I’m going to change my author name. I’m going to make it W Winters for dark.” That way, when the reader sees the cover, even if they’re like, “This looks sexy,” the moment they see W Winters, they know there may be triggering content in here. They’re going to be like, “This is going to be one of those darker ones that might be a more difficult read and not something I want to take out onto the beach.” That was my solution to it.
I do have my content and triggering information on my website as well but that way, immediately and visually, you know just by looking at the cover, which is the first thing that we say, “This is what I’m going to get from this book and this author this time.” One of my proud moments is when USA Today said, “Willow Winters is writing as W Winters,” for one of my books that hit. I don’t remember which one it was but I thought, “That’s amazing that they saw that. They knew it was me and that was my alternative pen name for my darker stuff.”
For me, the theme so far of our conversation and in everything that you’ve talked about, which says a lot about you and about how people who are reading can reframe how they think about being an author is taking care of your readers.
My love language is acts of service. I love my readers and how much they give me fulfillment and feed my soul. I love to take care of them back. If somebody says something, I listen and absorb it. I try to figure out how I can make it work.
It’s a smart marketing strategy to say, “Here’s my readership,” but the energy you’re doing it is taking care of them so that as a fan, they don’t get triggered and then taking care of them by engaging with them on TikTok and by telling them, “You don’t have to buy it now but you’ll love it. You’ll know where it is,” which are all marketing. You can come at it from that angle but you can also come at it from taking care of people through giveaways.
I love that. I’ve never thought of it as taking care but that’s what I try to do.
Even the multiple strings of income and recovering things like taking care of those readers who want a neutral cover or those people that aren’t your readers yet. You want to be able to take care of them and let them read romance. Maybe, they live in a conservative area and you’re like, “I’m going to take care of you.” It’s scary sometimes when you haven’t gotten the feedback yet or you haven’t connected with readers yet and you’re like, “I don’t know how this is going to happen. Maybe they won’t like me.” It can be hard to try.
I told Sophie that when she wanted me to show my face and do a live. I said, “What if they don’t like me?” She was like, “Don’t worry. They’re going to love you.” I was like, “I don’t know. I can be a smart ass sometimes.” A lot of people will say, “I thought you were going to be goth,” because I write so many dark materials. I’m like, “I don’t think I am my brand,” but you got to put yourself out there.
I appreciate that. It is scary but you will get positive results. The more authentic you are, the more positive results you’ll get.
I had an author friend who said they wanted to put on this persona and do this type of thing. I was like, “The moment they meet you, they’re going to be confused. You don’t want to confuse anybody or make people second guess who you are or what they thought about you.” Don’t worry. I talked them out of it. They didn’t do it.
There are other authors I follow on TikTok and they’re very matter-of-fact giving recommendations or saying what they liked about this book and didn’t like but they’re authors and I’m like, “That’s authentically her. That’s the way she shows up on TikTok.” When I someday get back to posting on TikTok, I’m going to be the same goofy self that I am. I’m not going to be quite as polished as Willow is but that’s okay because that’s authentically me.
You don’t want to make people second guess who you are, so be authentic.
It’s like your books. You do this when you’re able to. With yourself, do it when you’re able to. I told Sophie when I was giving birth, “If I can live stream this and help somebody there.” She was like, “How about we don’t?” Luckily, it happened so fast. I didn’t have the option.”
What’s the best advice that you would give to somebody who has maybe published a couple but hasn’t had that success? What would you say?
I love this advice. It’s my favorite advice to give. Write for yourself, edit for the masses and market for the money. It is three different hats. Write for yourself and that’s going to keep you writing. Edit for the masses. Make sure that you’re reaching their expectations with everything. It doesn’t mean changing your plot. It means if you’re writing romance, you need to have a happily ever after. Make sure that it’s readable and copy-edited. The money market is where a lot of people don’t want to take that hat off. They’re like, “This tattoo is so important.” No, it’s distracting from the couple’s embrace and the title. Get rid of it. Take that personal side off and put your business hat on. Know your market and go for the money because that’s what’s going to fuel you so that you can keep writing
Money is so motivating. I tell that to people. I’m like, “Do you know what helps? It’s money.” Looking at my bank account and seeing the money there makes it so much easier to sit back down to write.
You got to be realistic with yourself. I had somebody say they wanted to publish their book wide and I said, “Why?” She said, “I feel like it’s more prestigious.” I said, “Don’t you want to write another book? It doesn’t matter if it’s prestigious. What matters is that you have money in your bank account so that you can sit down and write another one.”
Some people are writing for prestige and I’m like, “Go for it.” I try to help people find the sweet spot in writing what they love, which I like that the way that you say it is a different way about the sweet spot between what you love and what people want and then that’s where a lot of money is. You have a different strategy and I like that too. Can you tell us about your book?
It’s a little bit dirty. It’s a sexy small-town romance, which is not at all what I am known for whatsoever but it’s exactly what I needed. It’s low conflict, low drama, lots of sex emotion and a great gut punch in a small town with some cute banter. I’m excited for it to release.
Where is the best place for people to find you?
Anywhere you do find me, there’s a link in my bio that has everywhere else and everything else that you could find about me but I’m active on TikTok, which we’ve talked about. I’m @WillowWintersAuthor, which is my same name on Facebook. I’m @WillowWintersShouldBeWriting on Instagram which it’s very accurate and then I’m also on Twitter. Although, I don’t think I contribute to Twitter as much as I could. I just tweet random things occasionally when I remember.
I’m going to do a vote here and say go to TikTok if you want to spend the most time with her.
I can’t even post videos on Facebook because it doesn’t show them to anybody. Somebody said TikTok was made for me and I’m like, “It is so I can be myself.” I can give you my sarcastic, funny self but still be me for my romantic side.
If I were to vote for you to go find her, that’s where I would say and also Amazon. Thank you so much for spending some time and chatting with me. I’ve had so much fun.
Thank you for having me. It’s been wonderful.
Everybody, thank you for reading and hanging out with us. Hugs and happy authoring.
Important Links
- Willow Winters
- Fifty Shades of Grey
- Kindle Direct Publishing
- Kindle Unlimited
- TikTok – @WillowWintersAuthor
- Top Shelf Romance
- Live a Thousand Lives
- Amelia Wilde
- Essentialism
- Kickstarter
- Oriana Leckert – Past Episode
- Russell Nohelty – Past Episode
- Discreet Series
- Tribe
- Bridgerton
- Willow Author Insight – TikTok
- Facebook – Willow Winters
- @WillowWintersShouldBeWriting – Instagram
- Patreon – Willow Winters
- Twitter – Willow Winters
- Amazon – Willow Winters
About Willow Winters
Willow writes endless happily ever afters from small town to epic mafia romances. With over 50 books published, she continues to deliver addictive love stories.
